In a recent conversation on the Artist Friendly With Joel Madden podcast, Avenged Sevenfold frontman M. Shadows opened up about his evolving views on religion, spirituality, and the meaning of life. The 43-year-old singer, whose real name is Matt Sanders, spoke about finding solace in the idea that existence may have no inherent purpose.
“I’m not religious at all,” he shared. “But I find beauty in no purpose. And I’ve found a lot of positivity in there being no purpose ‘cause I feel like that’s the ultimate freedom. I don’t want to be told what needs to happen. I want to have my own path. And for me, it’s all the simple things we all come back to, and it’s all the things that religion would teach you. It’s love. It’s my family. It’s empathy. It’s trying to further the human conversation. But the difference here is if you said, ‘Matt, does any of it matter?’ I would say, ‘No.’ I would say at the very end, the only reason it matters is ‘cause while you’re here, I don’t like to see suffering… I believe that if you look in even a five-billion-year time frame when Earth gets wiped out, I believe nothing will ever know we were here. It doesn’t matter.”
Shadows expanded on his lack of religious belief by reflecting on humanity’s understanding of history and the universe. He acknowledged the philosophical paradox that arises when discussing the origins of existence. “I look at it like this. I look at deep history. And there’s no sign of… I mean, you could always go back, back, back. And the thing that God has going for it is you can always go, ‘Well, what created that?’ And you can always go further back. These are just conversations that go in circles.”
Using humor to make his point, he questioned the timeline of divine intervention. “But let’s say we have a Big Bang… And my question would be, at what point did God start taking notice or care? Was it 2000 years ago? Was he, like, ‘Those guys are kind of apes, but they’re kind of looking like this new thing that I’m into. I’m gonna send Jesus out in a couple thousand years.’ And so there’s a bunch of funny things to me.”
Still, he recognizes how modern believers have adapted their interpretations of divinity. “I understand that people that believe in God, now they’ve become more savvy,” he said. “So, they go, ‘Well, I’m not talking about the guy in the sky. I’m talking about a feeling’ or a consciousness.”
Shadows spoke about the fear and uncertainty he felt when he realized that he no longer believed in God. “When you wanna know what you feel is the truth and you read as much as you can on it, there’s a shock to the system, which makes me think it’s very much evolutionary and how it’s based in a human. ‘Cause there are very few things that will make your body chill to the bone. The day that I realized that God was not a feasible option for me, my whole body just shook in fear. And I know that is usually the spot where most people go, ‘Okay, I’m going back. I’m gonna run back to it.’ And so I just was calm and I just continued to read and see if I could find things on either side.”
Despite his rejection of traditional religious beliefs, Shadows explained that his perspective is not nihilistic but deeply philosophical. “The belief in God and the comfort in God almost feels like I’m going to carry on in some way or there’s a me, and a lot of the philosophy that I believe in is that there is no you,” he said. “That’s what ‘Nobody’‘s about. Like, there’s no you. You are one with the whole universe. Now, God might have his hands around the whole universe, but at that point, you’re in an ocean.”
Reflecting on a profound experience with 5-MeO-DMT, a psychedelic drug known as the “God Molecule,” Shadows described how the substance shaped his worldview. “So, when I did 5-MeO-DMT… the point of it is to wipe away you… It’s very scary. But one thing that it led me to was, I have this friend, Jeremiah, who has become very religious as of late. And we’d argue with each other — back and forth… So when I did 5-MeO, it’s called the ‘God Molecule.’ And you lose yourself. You don’t exist when you’re on this. And it’s not correct for English words or any words. You actually come back and you can’t even talk.”
The experience left him with an unexpected epiphany. “But the next day I saw Jeremiah, and I gave him a hug and I said, ‘You were right all along. He exists.’ And I hugged him, ‘cause I realized at that moment it didn’t matter, regardless. And I just said what he believes in and what I experienced was the same thing. He puts a name on it, and I was just one with the universe and with every human that ever existed.”
This newfound understanding directly influenced the lyrics of “Nobody.” “When you listen to ‘Nobody,’ the first lyric is ‘I’m a God. I’m awake. I’m the one in everything.’ And it’s because I’m taking those words and I’m changing them to what you think they mean. I don’t think I’m up there making decisions.”
Drawing from Buddhist philosophy, Shadows summed up his spiritual outlook by referencing an ancient teaching about enlightenment. “There’s an old Buddhist saying, ‘Enlightenment is when the wave realizes it’s the ocean.’ It’s when you realize you’re just one with everything and you’re just ebbing and flowing.”
He reflected on how this realization led him to see his friend Jeremiah’s faith in a new light. “And so when I realized that, I realized Jeremiah was right all along. What he believes in and what guides him in life, what he calls God is just a technicality. It was all the same thing. And so it was actually an interesting way to come back around to everything.”
Shadows’ perspective challenges conventional religious narratives while offering an alternative take on spirituality — one that finds meaning in human connection, empathy, and the dissolution of the self into the greater whole.