PENDRAGON’s Guitarist NICK BARRETT Reflects On New Album: “I’m Still In a Bit of a State of Shock About It. It’s Kind Of Nothing Like I’ve Ever Done Before.”

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With over 40 years of Pendragon under his belt, Nick Barrett has guided the band as its principle songwriter, guitarist and vocalist. Often considered part of progressive rock’s second wave that built a following through the 80s along with the likes of Marillion, IQ and many others, Pendragon’s star began rising in earnest in the 90s and they have maintained a respected profile ever since. However, few would have expected that 2020 would bring one of the crowning achievements of their studio recording history. New album “Love Over Fear” finds the band confident, inspired and radiantly upbeat through its ten excellent songs.

In this interview with Sonic Perspectives correspondent Scott Medina, Nick discusses the new songs, vocal breakthroughs, unexpected inspiration and the current state of the band. As he prepares to embark on a well-selling tour, the future looks especially bright for Pendragon and its fans. Listen to and watch the streaming audio slideshow, or enjoy the audio in your favorite podcast player. You can also read the interview transcript below. And as usual remember to subscribe our social media channels to be notified about new interviews and contents we publish on a daily basis.

Slideshow photographs by Anthéa Photography and Grzegorz Chorus

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

Hey everyone, this is Scott Medina for Sonic Perspectives and we are talking today with Nick Barrett. The Pendragon machine is gearing up and raring to go. So, what are you in the middle of right now, Nick? You were just saying to me that you’ve had concert t-shirts arrive and you’re probably doing rehearsals and all sorts of things, right?

You know, the thing is that people, they kind of think you strum a bit of a guitar, you know, but that’s like 1% of what you do. The rest of it is checking if the actual correct music is on the CDs when they turn up, that on all the labels the picture isn’t upside down on the album sleeve…we’re just looking at the moment and we’ve just realized that on quite a few of the tee shirts, that the design has been printed slightly off to the side. So you know, I tell you, this is heart-attack material, really! This close to the tour to get these sorts of problems! So yeah, it’s a lot of stress.

I hope it pays off for you when you hit the stage and you have some fun then.

Oh yeah, I mean, it’ll be absolutely fantastic then! You know, the moment you step onto that tour bus and the driver starts to pull away, there’s nothing else you can do. You know? And at that moment, you pour yourself a whiskey, you sit down and you enjoy it.

Right on. Nice. I look forward to you having that moment here shortly. 

Yeah. We’re looking forward to it!

So let’s talk about this new album that’s come out, “Love Over Fear”. It feels like this is an album with a message of “carpe diem” woven throughout it.

(Chuckles) Well, yes! It kind of is what it says on the cover a little bit, love over fear. I’ve sort of felt with the way the world is at the moment, sometimes in music you just need something that’s uplifting. You need something that’s positive, something that’s beautiful again. There’s a place for social comment and politics in music, you know, I’ve definitely done that. But you sometimes look at it and think you need to counter balance that sometimes with something which is just uplifting and not so heavy for people. And I think the world at the moment kind of needs something a little bit like that. So, it felt like the right sort of thing to do for this album.

So when you were song writing, were you really trying to tie a concept together, or more that the overall sense was more of positivity for this one.

Yeah, the overall feeling was one of positivity. I didn’t want to get into any really heavyweight politics – which I kind of enjoy and have sort of touched on things in the past – but I think you kinda gotta remember, sometimes it is like with the Oscars, when people get up there and they start banging on about political things sometimes… people want films and film stars and music to be an escape. They don’t really want to be lectured to all the time, so I just think there’s a sort of a counter balance to everything else that’s been going on the last few years with music and films and things, that it’s nice to do something that’s just music! It’s just got some tunes! And some nice artwork you can look at!

Beautiful. Yeah, the artwork is stunning. Talk a bit about the design of that cover painting. There appears to be an ocean wave turning into a vortex where all the fish and sharks are headed towards.

Yeah. The thing is with this art work, it’s weird because I originally got the idea for this about five years ago. I thought, for the next album I want this kind of vortex thing. I thought maybe it’d be butterflies and birds and maybe some sea creatures and going towards a kind of single point in the middle. So that kind of idea was there. And then where I live now in Cornwall, we went to a place called Boscastle, which is a tiny old little Harbor town. A beautiful classic sort of smuggler’s type of village, It’s a lovely, fascinating place. And there was a shop there selling these paintings and we went in and had a look and I saw this picture and I thought, wow, that’s incredible. That’s almost exactly like what I was thinking for a new album and I love the artwork. I thought I’ve got to get in touch with this artist. It was a local girl who only lives two miles down the road from us here. A girl called Liz Saddington and I got in touch with her and said I’m looking to try and get an album cover made for a new album. This is the kind of idea I’ve got. But I liked the idea of having all these sea creatures because I live very near the sea and it’s very sea-based in Cornwall. In her pictures that I saw in the shop, they were all kind of shoals of fish and a couple of mermaids and this sort of thing. I thought that’s almost exactly what I’ve got in mind. And the other thing was to have limited colors. So it was mainly blue, with a green thing going on a little bit. So it had this sort of real atmosphere to it. Liz came round here probably a couple of dozen times she’d come around and we’d go through every detail of what we were looking for. Every fish was completely different from another one. And it just took about a year and a half just to get the artwork finished, but it’s something in the end that is exactly how I wanted it to be and I’m really, really pleased with it.

Yeah, it’s sumptuous. It’s a gorgeous cover. And so does the landscape that’s there on the cover, does that sort of reflect the vibe that you have in Cornwall?

Yeah, it’s very much like that, it’s a lot of open fields, a lot of hills. I mean, the main feature down here of course is the Atlantic sea which we’ve got just in front of us here. And the influence of that very much came through I think on the album. I mean, Peter our bass player, when he first heard the demos he said, I can really feel the sea in this music. It really kind of has that flavor. And I was very happy about that. You know, it’s very kind of smuggler country here. You’ve got very, very rugged shore lines, rough seas, and like at the moment in the middle of winter you get a lot of storms. It’s quite famous for the smugglers, like a hundred fifty years ago. So, it’s really got an atmosphere about it and it’s nice to incorporate that into some music.

Yeah, you do feel that reverence toward the elemental world in this recording and the animals and nature. And then we’ve got the track “Water”. Can you talk a little bit about what that element of water means to you personally?

Well, one of the reasons for moving to Cornwall was because of my love for surfing. I really wanted to be close to the ocean eventually. I thought that sometime we would move down here and we did three years ago, we’ve been here for three years now. It’s an incredible thing. Every time I get in the water there’s this amazing sense of peace and it sorts out all my problems. I mean I used to get in the sea and realize, you know, I’m not thinking about the mortgage or the gas bill or problems. You’re just kind of letting all that go and just being in the moment. It’s a bit like mountain climbing – which was what “Men Who Climb Mountains” was all about – was being in that moment. And I think it’s at those times when you see who you really are. It’s quite amusing as well because if I get wiped out on a wave, I stand or fall by my own actions. Nobody else, it’s just me, you know? So if I do well, it’s me. If I do badly and wipe out, it’s just me, it’s my fault. And that kind of amuses me, that you take responsibility for yourself. So there’s all these different facets of being in the sea. And I always come out of the sea feeling happy and relaxed and really contented and I just love it. So, you know, there had to be a song about it!

It’s an epic track, but of course you have a lot of epic tracks on this album, don’t you?

Yeah, there are really, I think three or four, maybe even five. But they were all epic without being 22 minutes long. I thought, in eight minutes you can do pretty much what we were doing with songs like “Paintbox” or “Breaking the Spell” or “Explorers of the Infinite”. They weren’t really, really long songs. So that was my kind of mental template for most of them, at the eight minute, nine minute mark.

You’re right, something like “Truth and Lies” really has that “Breaking the Spell” kind of feel, and then something like “Who Really Are We?” I think has the immediacy of a track like “Indigo” and really hits you right away.

Yeah. On an album I always try to have a sense of balance and it’s a journey for people. So they’re not kind of like locked into just hard-hitting up-tempo stuff, or not just locked into just wishy-washy atmospheric stuff. I like a bit of a roller coaster, so you might have a couple of songs which have…I mean, we nearly always start an album with a typically kind of Pendragon melodic song, you know, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, that sort of thing. And then we usually go into something that gets a little bit slower. I mean, like, obviously you’ve got “Truth and Lies” but before that the big change is something like “Starfish and the Moon”, which is basically piano and vocal. So, that’s going to kind of surprise people a little bit. And then after “Truth and Lies”, you’ve got kind of an Irish rock song. So, you know, just when you’re sort of like ready for the mood to change, you get this sort of Irish rock song come along and it’s kind of taking you on a bit of a journey. And then from then on there’s lots of ups and downs and highs and lows, I hope. That the sort of idea.

Well that’s what I really love about this album is the diversity. Like you were saying, the “360 Degrees”, this Celtic rock song that is just infectious. That’s going to be, I would imagine, a crowd favorite in concert.

Yes. We’ve always been looking for something that might be a replacement for “Nostradamus” which is very uptempo. We’ve been playing that since 1993. It’s a very popular live track. It’s always been in the set, you know, it’s a short and sweet track. So I was looking for something that had the same sort of feel as that. With this though, bringing in some different instruments like the violin and the different styles of backing vocals, I really thought we could do something uptempo and lively and I think that track is going to be fantastic live. I’ve really, really got a good feeling about that one for live.

Yeah. Will Zoe be playing violin on that live as well?

Yeah, she will. She’s been practicing hard and it sounds amazing. She’s a very talented woman. I said to her the other day, I was watching when we were rehearsing, I said, you know, you’re playing the violin and then you get into the vocal mic and doing all those little backing vocals. And that’s a big deal to have to do that. You know, it’s not an easy thing. She does those things remarkably well and it’s been an absolute pleasure working with her and having her in the band to do this sort of thing. She’s got a very powerful mid-tone to her voice which really brings something to Pendragon. It’s a female backing vocal without it sounding too girly. And it has this sort of folk thing. And I like that in folk music. On the one end of the spectrum with music, you’ve got someone like Mariah Carey who does vocal acrobatics as I call it, very kind of complex solo type of vocals. And on the other end of the scale you have these sort of folk type of vocals where people just have a very kind of nice sound to their voice, very powerful, really suits the song, very earthy sounding. And for me, that’s where Zoe is. And I just love that.

It must be great for you now to have two backup singers on stage and get to share the vocals a bit in the live performance.

It’s absolutely brilliant. I mean, I can remember back in 2006, we were doing a gig in Warsaw. It was about half an hour before we went on stage and it was dark and I just went outside the tour bus, just to look outside and get some fresh air. And I just thought, man, this is difficult, carrying all these songs for two hours. The harmonies that I would like to have, we can’t really do because everyone else is playing their instruments, so there’s parts where they can’t always do harmonies. So it’s always like an approximation of what the finished album sounds like. And I love vocal harmonies. I’ve always loved them. But I always felt we never quite had the lineup to be able to produce it live. And it kind of feels a bit lonesome as well, when you’re on your own fronting the band. And it’s nice to have some female energy to spin off live. To me it kind of completes the kind of story, in a way. I really love playing live now and having the girls along. It’s just a great thing. And they’re a bit more fun as well. You know, you’ve got grizzled campaigners like Peter Gee and Clive Nolan that (laughing) you know, they’re kind of the old hacks…having the younger girls along, you know, to take the mickey out of us, it’s good fun!

Getting back to the album, you had mentioned “Starfish and the Moon” before and then toward the end we get to this piece “Whirlwind”, that is basically like a crooner piece. It even has saxophone in there. Where did that come from? It’s such a departure,

I don’t know (pauses). I don’t know. It is absolutely extraordinary. Once I had done those vocal melodies, um, I thought where did this come from? I mean, in a way, I think it kinda came through…something says, you know, maybe it’s the ghost of George Michael!

Exactly!

It has that sort of soulful approach, which I’ve always wanted to do. I always love that kind of soulful, heartfelt type of vocal. But I never really thought…I didn’t think I could do that! I don’t really consider myself first and foremost a vocalist at all! I ended up doing the vocals cause no one else in the band wanted to do it. That’s initially how it kinda started. And as the years went by, I just got left with it. And in the end it ended up being sort of a trademark sound of Pendragon. It’s a bit like Phil Collins…if you hear that voice, you know who it is. With me, I wouldn’t call myself a classic good singer at all. Um, but you know who it is! You know, like you hear a lot of rock vocalists and they sound amazing but you can’t really always tell who they are. Cause they always sound quite similar. And if you get someone who stands out, maybe their technical side isn’t as good – I would say that about me, I’m not technically that great a singer – but it’s a trademark sound so you at least do get that. But I do feel that with songs like “Whirlwind” that I found something that I’d never found before. When I moved to Cornwall I have a piano in a little sun room which looks out over the fields and the sea. It is amazing! I just sit there staring out the window. And I wrote that piece of music on that old upright piano. It’s a real piano, so you get a little real vibe from it, like just playing the acoustic guitar. It’s not electronic at all, so it’s pure. So I had the music and then to try to come up with a vocal melody, I thought it was gonna be very difficult. But soon as I got in front of the mic, ideas started to come out and the lyrics came…and I just couldn’t believe it! And within in a few days it was done! I’m still in a bit of a state of shock about it. It’s kind of nothing like I’ve ever done before. And there it is.

I’ll resonate that back as a listener because although you’re right that a listener knows Pendragon when they just hear the vocals, to your credit, that’s not true on this album in a few places. Like on “Whirlwind”, I mean I’m listening to it and I’m wondering, hang on, I’ve got to check the liner notes here…did one of the female backup singers come and do lead on this song? Because is that really Nick singing right now?

(Laughing) Is it Clive Nolan just holding his testicles?

(Laughing) Well I don’t know, maybe we’ll find out in concert. Are you going to play those songs in concert?

Yes sir, we are!

Right on, hats off to you. So going to an area that you are more revered for and known for, is that of the guitar. When you approach songs, is there a rhyme or reason why certain songs bring forth more of an epic lead guitar solo and others don’t? Like on this album, we’ve got “Truth and Lies” and “Who Really Are We?” which have that classic Pendragon lead guitar but on a track like “Eternal Light”, you start to go there but then the guitar kind of fades back into the mix and the keys come more to the fore. So I was curious how you decide when to really let it rip for two or three minutes straight?

It’s all down to the feel of it. I mean if you take something like “Water” the chord progression is a very melodic chord progression. And the same with “Truth and Lies” and “Who Really Are We?”. The chord progression lends itself very well to guitar solos because of the way the chords resolve to make it emotional. I kind of know now what will make that work. I sort of have been doing it long enough to know whether something will work on that front. On the other side of the coin, something like “Eternal Light”, you’re quite right. Particularly the end I was going to do a longer solo and I really was not going to do the solo that actually is there. That solo that is there was going to be an alternative version. It was actually going to be a slide guitar, but I played around with it and the chords, and I just always knew it wasn’t gonna be a killer solo with emotion. It was going to be more of a sort of a slide melody and I just couldn’t get the melody…It just wasn’t working. So in the end I listened to the other one, which is more of a blues solo that’s on there now, and I thought, you know, that works really well. It’s very short, it’s not a long solo, but it kind of rounds the song off well. And it’s enough. It’s not a solo that develops. It’s just got a nice blues lilt to it and then the song ends. But I think during the song, and particularly in places on this album, I really wanted keyboards to feature because they were carrying the melodies. So on the middle parts of “Eternal Light”, it’s that kind of ethereal vocal sound on a keyboard, and I really wanted that to be the main feature. I didn’t want the lead guitar to be the main feature there because the beauty was in that vocal sound. Sometimes I think you listen to it, you think, yeah, that’s a keyboard melody right there. Or you listen to it and think that’s taking me in a sort of feel-guitar solo way. So it’s kind of just the way the dice fall, really. I think I know now pretty much which way it’s going to go quite early on.

Could you talk a bit about what that theme of “Eternal Light” means to you?

Hang on, I’ve got to think about the lyrics again, now (laughs). The weird thing about “Eternal Light” and you’re probably the first – I haven’t said this about “Eternal Light” before – it was actually a song, or part of that song, that was around about the same time as the “Not of this World” album. And I had some of the lyrics but I didn’t like it. It sounded like some funny…it just sounded like a mid-paced rock tune and I didn’t like it. So I put it to bed and then dug it out again for this album with some slightly different lyrics and changed it a bit. So it suddenly took on a completely new life. But the song really is about a spark of something that I think is in everybody. It’s about bringing some light into the world. So hopefully we do that through bringing music. It’s funny cause like some people, you can see them on the internet, on Facebook (I don’t do Facebook, but you know, I hear about it from Rachel), and they just bring darkness. They bring it and they just spread it. They don’t want to bring light. I’ve seen this with a couple of people that have reacted to things that we’ve done and you know, I just think it’s just a negative black thing and it’s much better if you can bring something that people can kind of enjoy. Just bring a bit of light into the world for goodness sakes! That’s all, you know, it doesn’t take much and it’s a much better thing for everybody if you do that.

There’s a few themes and lyrics that are repeated in that song “Eternal Light” that are in the first song, too, in “Everything”. Like the lines, “Looking out in shades of gray…”

Yes, that’s right, yeah. I wanted the idea of repeating certain sections, but done in a slightly different way, with a slightly different sort of feel to it. I like that. I’ve always liked it. I think wow, that “A” section will go really well with that “C” section and then we can do this vocal over the top and it kind of becomes very exciting to sort of break things down like that.

So with you being the main songwriter in the band, how much do the other musicians impact the arrangement of the finished songs?

Well, not at all really. I mean I sort of do the whole thing as a sort of finished song. It’s been like that for forever really, it’s the way it works well with Pendragon. I mean some people just say, well, you know, it’s like Nick Barrett’s solo band… Well, they can say whatever they like. All I can say is as a band, this is how it works well for everybody. I mean when Clive first joined, we had had quite a few not great experiences with keyboard players in the past. So me and Peter said to him, look, we’re not really looking for any more writers in the band. And he said, not a problem, I’ve got all my other projects I want to do. And we said, well that works out great for everybody. And so Peter‘s done his solo stuff. So, it’s pretty well been sort of left to me to do, which I’m really happy about. I love doing music like this. But in terms of something like bass playing, I mean I do some rough demos for it, I demo the whole song all the way through, the arrangements, picking all the keyboard sounds and what we’re doing, the complete thing. But then like when Peter comes in, he’ll play the bass like how he plays the bass. I mean, I’ll do some demos of the bass. They’re just like root-note things and a few rhythm things and it’s okay, you know? But when Peter comes in and plays the bass, it goes to another level! He’s bringing his personality and he’s putting that down on the record. And I listen to that bass on this album and man, I’m telling ya, I mean it just blows my socks off. That’s a bass player putting his mark on the record. His sound is great. He’s got some great little ideas where he puts little notes and things in like in those sections you were talking about in “Everything”: “Looking from the inside out…” He’s doing bass parts in that which are lovely little ideas. So he’ll bring things like that to the table. Clive more or less doesn’t need to so much because a lot of the keyboards in the arrangements are written in that way. But he’ll kind of have suggestions for things and we’ll try some things. And on the acoustic CD he got to let loose on the classical arrangements on “Truth and Lies” and doing the church organ thing. And that’s really where as a classically trained musician he’s able to really play something like a church organ how it would be played on a church organ. So you get sort of another side of a sound on the acoustic CD. But that’s pretty much the way we work. I mean, same with like I program all the drums, but my drum programming is pretty much kind of, boom chick boom chick. I mean I’ll put in sort of triplet rolls and rolls that I know that a drummer might do. And then Vinny comes in and laughs at it and he does his thing. And that’s what it should be. He puts his mark on it. So they don’t really get involved in the writing or the arrangements or anything like that. But they come in and they add to it and make it into a band thing. That’s the deal. We’re all happy that it works like that, that’s what we enjoy. As I said before, I got a bit of a thing about this because some people say, well, you know, it’s like a Nick Barrett solo thing. And I just say, this is Pendragon and it’s worked for 40 years. Don’t knock it. It works!

So as you are writing and you’re being influenced by things that you really like, you mentioned even some of George Michael’s crooning might’ve touched in on “Whirlwind”. When does it happen that influences come in more directly? For example, I always really loved the Sade album “Stronger than Pride”, and then I’m listening to the Pendragon album “Believe” and the song “Learning Curve”. And I’m like, wait a minute, there’s a direct quote from the Sade song “Nothing Can Come Between Us” there. It kind of shocked me for a moment cause I sure didn’t expect to find Sade in a Pendragon song!. But there it was.

Yeah! (slyly) I mean, I don’t know if the shock is that it’s a Sade song or it’s just a freaking rip off! (laughing) You know, a lot of musicians get kind of a little bit coy about this. But you know, I heard David Bowie say, he said, I copy what other people do and there is no musician that doesn’t. They’ll kind of hook out little bits and they’ll turn it back to front and they’ll put their own slant on it and they’ll change it a bit and do that. I mean, whatever influences us will come out because we think it’s good. You know, we want to speak the same voice. I’m telling you, there’s one prog band that every single album that I’ve heard so far, it’s got that “Apocalypse in 13/8” from “Supper’s Ready” by Genesis, on every single album of theirs. And it always makes me chuckle a bit because that’s the Holy Grail, and they keep kind of coming back with that one. And there’s no band that hasn’t done it. So, in terms of that, I pretty well wear my influences on my sleeve. It’s there and I’ve always absolutely loved Sade. I love that kind of jazz. Ever since I heard “Diamond Life” I bought everything that she did and I love the soulfulness of her music and the way it developed. That sort of soul music was always there in me. It’s the same with people like Michael Jackson and George Michael, even sort of like Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes, and Marvin Gaye, all these sort of soul and bluesy type things and jazz soul, things I loved dearly. I suppose in prog people don’t really expect it to come out, but you know we’ve had influences all the way from Slade and Sweet and T-Rex all the way through to Sade and the really obvious bands like Pink Floyd and Genesis. But there’s a lot of different music that I really love. I mean, Mozart came into “Masquerade Overture” quite a lot. I guess it is a surprise for some people, but to me it’s just normal. I mean, a lot of people would be actually very shocked to know how much of an influence the French singer Charles Aznavour was on me. I mean, that guy’s incredible. His songwriting, his lyrics and everything. Incredibly poignant, beautiful melodies and it was a massive influence. And it’s come out in Pendragon albums, big time. People would never believe that. Yeah, believe!

So Pendragon has a very active touring schedule coming up. How have the rehearsals been going?

Really great! We laugh about it now because we always sort of do these preliminary rehearsals at my house, which is brilliant because, you know, we can stop and go and have a cup of tea and then we have a meal together and then go back and do some more rehearsal. We were talking the other day about when we used to rehearse when we were like 20, 25 years old…we couldn’t even do more than about two hours before we were sick to death of it and lying on the floor, you know, we smoked 20 cigarettes a day and we always felt tired and worn out. I guess it’s because we were really struggling to try and get somewhere. There was always this element of being a bit worn out with having to pack the van, it was hard. But these days, even though we’re older, it’s a thoroughly enjoyable thing. And I can’t really believe I’m saying that because we used to really hate rehearsals and we’ve done some pretty long hours in the last few sessions and really enjoyed it. But I think it’s got something to do with the food that Rachel cooks. We all have a great meal and get the wine out and we have a good night. It’s a great thing. I think when you get older in life, you realize the value of the people in your band and the friendships that are formed. It’s kind of emphasized when you’re sat round a table and you’ve got some wine out and the candles are there, you have some nice food and you’re having a laugh about things. You realize how incredibly lucky you are. It really is a flipping gift. That’s a gift! To have that after, you know, 42 years. I mean most people in bands are killing each other after that long. And we find that we get on well. It’s a good thing to be in Pendragon and it sort of comes through when we’re rehearsing. Everyone wants to kind of do a good job.

Well it’s fortunate for fans as well as for you guys because the material you’re coming out with is just fantastic. To everyone listening, definitely pick up “Love Over Fear” because if you’re a Pendragon fan – or even if you’re new to the band – this is a great entry point as well. You guys are going to play as many shows as you can in the coming months and I know those are going to be fantastic. So anything you want to leave us with Nick?

Well we just look forward to seeing everybody on tour. We can’t wait. And getting back to the Cruise to the Edge is going to be amazing! It’s going to be kind of like icing on the cake really because the big tour will be done through February and March. So it’s gonna be pretty cold in Europe! So, jumping on a boat, we can just get into some tee shirts and some shorts. It’s going to be absolutely brilliant.

Yeah, you can kick back at that point. And who knows, maybe they’ll have you on at a reasonable hour. I was at that 3:00 AM show last year on the Cruise, but that was something.

Yeah, the weird thing about it is that going on stage at 2:30 in the morning is just crazy! But it’s one of those things…Pendragon have had quite a few of these. You gotta be crazy doing this, you know, driving 3000 miles to play a gig with Dream Theater in Portugal. You know, we did that and we were thinking what the heck are we doing this for? And then you get there and it’s like one of the best gigs we’ve ever played in our life! Um, so, you know, weird stuff happens.

It does! (laughing) Well, thanks so much for talking with us today, Nick, it’s been a real pleasure.

Yeah, thank you, Scott. It’s been great!

And all the best to you and the band in the next couple of weeks and to Rachel and the whole crew, getting you guys out on the road. And again, congratulations on this spectacular album.

Oh, thank you very much. That’s great to hear. Thanks, Scott, cheers!

Yeah. Really nice. All right. Take care of my friend. Cheers. Bye!

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